Salutations fellow ESO'ers!
I was thinking of posting this in the Combat forums but I'm assuming this is where it will get more traction. Ive posted before in other threads about class identity and i figure, i might as well get a proper write-up for it. With all due respect of course, this is an opinion. Its a long one and i hope players read it first before making judgments and whatnot. I am of course open to other suggestions and changes but most importantly, we should all have a civil conversation / dialogue about what constitute class identity and how ZoS might be able to implement it without breaking or at least without losing what it means to be ESO. Some of the ideas here might be familiar with some of the posters, in fact, a poster had a fantastic idea for wardens [ https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6359670#Comment_6359670 ] and i really wanted to work on some of his ideas.
- You can always skip to the b]Changes[/b if you dont want to read the whole background part. -
Premise
First up, lets discuss what is, in ESO gaming terms, a class identity. In many other successful and unsuccessful MMOs, a class is a character that a player has chosen to be his avatar in game and logically will have a set precedent of abilities and skills that either reflects their style of play or a certain role within a group setting. Certain MMOs, like the now defunct TSW, eschew this structure by allowing its players access to all available skill lines. Some, like WoW or Wildstar, provides a rigid, delineated set of abilities that only a class can use.
In ESO however, we have a unique presentation. Each class has access to both class abilities that are exclusive to it and also other skill lines from the Guild, world, weapons, etc. This meant that ESO has a unique and excellent step ahead from its competitors in terms of character building. You'd be hard pressed to find another MMO that can fill this niche. (So far, as i am concerned, this is the only one, so if you do find another, pls indulge me.). The "play as you want to play" mantra is very contentious however because at the end of the day, what you want to play may not equal to what others want you to do and it will, or might, affect how the player base define what a good player is.
The last PTS cycle and the current one made me realise how valuable and how important it is to have a proper class identity, given that alot of the gear sets are now making their way into class mechanics so thats why i would love for ZoS to change up their current class changes to further emphasis on identity, rather than just giving a spammable to a class just because. (ie DK rock throw because... Dragons throw rocks apparently). The current combat changes to bring abilities on par with underlying mechanics (for eg DoTs should be DoTs and not be on par with a direct damage hit or AoEs having the same cost as a single target ability) certainly points to a better combat direction, given how sometimes players can feel that certain abilities from classes might feel unfair or overpowered in certain situations.
So how do we define class identity? There's so many variables to contend with that its almost hard to fully say what it is that should be changed to ensure a proper identity for each class. think about it, if a nightblade is all about critical damage and critical chance as it's identity, then how does that translate to the tanking role? or healing role? Or if templars were only good for healing, then how does that translate to doing good dps or tanking? or are wardens a jack of all trades but master of none? would that really be class identity? Also, we need to understand player routines as well as player choices. for eg a PvE player would go for that regular buff buff DoT DoT spammable rotation while a PvP player would build differently. or a healer would definitely have a different rotation. So how do we then declare what a class identity can be?
CHANGES
Here's my take on all the class changes that i feel would benefit and solidify unique identities. Again, I'm open to other possibilities and also other suggestions as long as we understand the reasoning behind the changes. I'm going to start with a class that i feel personally, have the best class identity in terms of its damaging, healing and certainly tanking abilities:
Dragon Knight
"These skillful masters-at-arms use the ancient Akaviri martial arts tradition of battle-spirit, and wield fearsome magic that pounds, shatters and physically alters the world around them."
My take on this class would be to further enforce their attrition warfare, with regards to how the Stamina variant of the DK has always been about poison or corroding armor or reducing the effectiveness of their enemies. Even the Fire variant, their magicka counterparts, looks towards DoTs or Burning status as their main priorities in dealing damage. Because of the nature of Ardent Flame abilities to deal melee damage, the fact that a DK is able to take hits would complement this playstyle, a kind of melee magicka / stamina build. They would also enhance their ability to take hits and survive, as well as giving that said mitigation to others as a form of group support.
- Change their Searing Heat passive to : Increases the damage over time of your Fiery Breath, Searing Strike, and Dragonknight Standard abilities by 33% and they cannot be purged or cleansed.
- Allow Magma Shell to be casted on a low health ally or self, to further emphasis on the nature of giving mitigation to others.
- Change Fossilize to encase yourself or an ally with low health, reducing their damage taken by 5% for 5s.
- Change Mountain Blessing passive to include minor sorcery as well. (note that i feel instead of casting an earthen ability, it should be when an ally is affected by an earthen ability.)
Templar
"These traveling knights call upon the power of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies while restoring health, magicka and stamina to their allies."
This is another class that doesn't really need much of a change since it already has a good niche within the player base community. However, it still lacks a proper identity or playstyle that can complement its niche. My idea for the Templar would be to have a passive that will increase damage done each time they deal damage with any of their direct damage. This passive also ties in with the way they heal or tank, with increasing heals each time they successfully heal an ally and take less damage each time they take direct damage.
- change their Balanced Warrior passive to : after dealing a direct damage Templar ability, you gain 3% more damage done. After taking a direct damage attack, you gain 3% more Armor. This effect stacks up to 5 times and lasts for 3s.
- change their Mending passive to : after successfully healing a target with a Restoring Light ability, you heal 10% more on your next healing ability. This effect has a CD of 2s.
- change Living Dark to : Envelop an ally in a lightless sphere for 4s, healing them for X amt, each time they take direct damage. ( i was also thinking of changing Purifying Light instead of Living Dark, basically casting it to an ally or self and it heals for 50% of the damage taken during the duration of the skill.)
Warden
"Wardens are defenders of the Green, master storytellers whose nature tales become magical reality. They wield frost spells against enemies and summon animals to aid them."
Wardens imo suffer the most in terms of identity, simply because they have a hodgepodge of skill line themes. They need more help in terms of tying together totally different themes within their kit. Wardens are definitely about symbiosis or something like when being able to do better damage with animal companions when you are in effect of a Green Balance ability. here's my take on it.
- Switch the passive for Flourish with Bond with Nature, and change Flourish passive to : When you are under the effects of a Green Balance ability, your Dive, Scorch and Swarm abilities deal 6% more damage.
- Change the passive for Emerald Moss to : Increase your Healing Done with Green Balance abilities by 8% whenever an enemy is affected by your Winter's Embrace abilities.
- Change the Piercing Cold passive to : Increase your Frost and Physical damage by 8%. (might not even change this in the first place if the balance is not right)
- The Feral and Eternal Guardian now deals Magic and Frost damage, with the Frost damage being the activated component. Wild Guardian deals Physical and Bleeding damage instead, with the Bleeding being the activated component.
- Deep Fissure now deals Frost damage instead of Magic damage. Subterranean Assault now deals Physical Damage instead of poison damage.
- Growing Swarm now deals Bleeding Damage.
Necromancer
"Masters of death, Necromancers can call upon corpses to serve as undead thralls and weave ghastly spells to both harm and heal."
Necromancer have the most recognizable identity of all; corpses and tethers. However, its so clunky and logically weird that it creates more of a nuisance than just being a good complement to the class. With that said though, ZoS shouldn't shirk from using corpses or tethers at all, they should further enhance that mechanic, with better implementation. Necromancers to me, should have high damage abilities that require its main form of supply, corpses. The type of damage that the necromancers deal is also all over the place with frost, flame and lightning to be part of their repertoire. There's many changes that i feel is needed for Necromancers to have a proper, viable class identity.
- Blastbones now has no casting time and you will be able to cast as many as you want. However the damage will be lesser by 35% to maintain balance. (or the AoE component is taken out and is now a single target ability).
- Boneyard now does not consume any corpses to increase its damage and lasts 12s. It now creates a corpse every 4s for its duration. ( or every 3s for 10s, keeping it to a regular rotation )
- Skeletal Mage and Spirit Mender now requires a corpse to cast it and does not leave a corpse after the spell ends and the Skeletal Mage now deals Flame damage.
- Bone Armor consumes corpses in a radius of 5m, with the number of corpses consume increasing the duration. 30s max.
- Bone Goliath now leaves 2 corpses when the duration ends.
- Venom Skull now deals Disease damage instead of poison damage to have continuity with the other sources of damage.
- Shocking Siphon now deals Magic damage, instead of Lightning ( or Frost damage, making it the same damage as Glacial Colossus. )
- Death Scythe now deals Frost damage.
Nightblade
"adventurers and opportunists with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on stealth, blades and speed, they thrive on conflict and misfortune trusting to their luck and cunning to survive."
Now this is a class that definitely needed surgery and a whole lot of work. Not only has ZoS changed its prior abilities to the point of no return, there is a sense of nightblades being relegated to solo pve characters and simply gankers for pvp (its even written in the class description smh ) I wont lie though, NB has always been my main go to character whenever i travel to a new DLC or partake in Trials or BGs but it has fallen so far down the pecking order that you simply be hard pressed to look at the NB's kit and say that "yes, thats the Assassin class". I am not trying to bring about a NB-pocalypse where you find NBs everywhere but at the very least make it identifiable as a class that relies on misfortune and cunning. What i came up with is a "High Risk, High Reward" approach to playing the NB that ties in well with all aspects of the group role, be it tanking, healing or damage. If a Nb is a poker player, they are the ones that always go all-in.
- Change their Dark Veil passive to : When you are below 50% health, you gain X amt weapon and spell damage. ( or penetration since the Necromancers are the ones with penetration passive as well. However, i do understand that Titanborn Strength, which is the new set in Harrowstorm will actually be OP in this scenario with its penetration bonuses. )
- Malevolent Offering will become the highest amount of healing done on a single target. However, it will cost more health to cast it.
- Soul Siphon will cast tethers onto nearby allies, much like soul tether, and heal them while draining you of health.
- Blur and Aspect of Terror switch places. I fail to see how being in the shadows is terrifying instead of an advancing Assassin.
- Change the Shadow Barrier passive to instead increasing the duration with the number of slotted shadow abilities, rather than heavy armor.
- Increase the effectiveness of Funnel Health and Crippling Grasp. Increase the damage for Debilitate and Swallow Soul.
- Killer's Blade deals 550% increased execute damage but now costs health. Impale deals a higher base damage.
- Take the Reave mechanic from Incapacitating Strike and put it in Surprise Attack. Incap now deals minor Fracture instead.
Sorcerer
"Sorceres can use Conjuration and Destruction spells to hurl lightning bolts and create shock fields, wield dark magic to snare and stun, and summon Daedric combat followers from Oblivion to assist them."
Sorcerers are a weird bunch. They have pets, which wardens and necromancers should have. They also have the only all lightning theme skill line among the classes. They are another class that is alike the wardens in terms of differentiating skill lines. However, what i came up for them for class identity is the Daedric Charges. The skill Bound Armaments is the best example of this. However, i feel that ZoS should pursue and explore this further.
- Change Amplitude to : Each time you deal a direct damage Sorcerer ability onto an enemy, you gain a Static Charge. After having 3 charges, you gain a bonus 10% damage increase against enemies with high health for 3s. ( this works with your daedric pet attacks. )
- Daedric pets deal 1 critical damage after 3 basic attacks.
Endnote
I have done all this changes with the view of changes to the CP system as well, which i will definitely include once ive done the writeup for it. Perhaps its a waste of time, perhaps it wont even see the light of day, but im hoping that some of the changes might make to the changes that ZoS had planned in the near future. Pls do critique and challenge my perspective on this, i much rather like to know whats in the other players' mind then just what is on the forums.
I am definitely just a regular player, having dip my toes in almost all aspects of ESO, from Trials to Cyro to dungeons and overland. Having played alot of other MMOs made me realise how impressive this game really is and how much potential it has to be one of the best in the business. Im sure there are many other things that i have not touched regarding this topic so come on in, lets discuss!
-RavenSworn-
edited : This is the quick write up for the CP revamp https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512048/champion-point-revamp#latest
Edited for Warden Abilities.
I was thinking of posting this in the Combat forums but I'm assuming this is where it will get more traction. Ive posted before in other threads about class identity and i figure, i might as well get a proper write-up for it. With all due respect of course, this is an opinion. Its a long one and i hope players read it first before making judgments and whatnot. I am of course open to other suggestions and changes but most importantly, we should all have a civil conversation / dialogue about what constitute class identity and how ZoS might be able to implement it without breaking or at least without losing what it means to be ESO. Some of the ideas here might be familiar with some of the posters, in fact, a poster had a fantastic idea for wardens [ https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6359670#Comment_6359670 ] and i really wanted to work on some of his ideas.
- You can always skip to the b]Changes[/b if you dont want to read the whole background part. -
Premise
First up, lets discuss what is, in ESO gaming terms, a class identity. In many other successful and unsuccessful MMOs, a class is a character that a player has chosen to be his avatar in game and logically will have a set precedent of abilities and skills that either reflects their style of play or a certain role within a group setting. Certain MMOs, like the now defunct TSW, eschew this structure by allowing its players access to all available skill lines. Some, like WoW or Wildstar, provides a rigid, delineated set of abilities that only a class can use.
In ESO however, we have a unique presentation. Each class has access to both class abilities that are exclusive to it and also other skill lines from the Guild, world, weapons, etc. This meant that ESO has a unique and excellent step ahead from its competitors in terms of character building. You'd be hard pressed to find another MMO that can fill this niche. (So far, as i am concerned, this is the only one, so if you do find another, pls indulge me.). The "play as you want to play" mantra is very contentious however because at the end of the day, what you want to play may not equal to what others want you to do and it will, or might, affect how the player base define what a good player is.
The last PTS cycle and the current one made me realise how valuable and how important it is to have a proper class identity, given that alot of the gear sets are now making their way into class mechanics so thats why i would love for ZoS to change up their current class changes to further emphasis on identity, rather than just giving a spammable to a class just because. (ie DK rock throw because... Dragons throw rocks apparently). The current combat changes to bring abilities on par with underlying mechanics (for eg DoTs should be DoTs and not be on par with a direct damage hit or AoEs having the same cost as a single target ability) certainly points to a better combat direction, given how sometimes players can feel that certain abilities from classes might feel unfair or overpowered in certain situations.
So how do we define class identity? There's so many variables to contend with that its almost hard to fully say what it is that should be changed to ensure a proper identity for each class. think about it, if a nightblade is all about critical damage and critical chance as it's identity, then how does that translate to the tanking role? or healing role? Or if templars were only good for healing, then how does that translate to doing good dps or tanking? or are wardens a jack of all trades but master of none? would that really be class identity? Also, we need to understand player routines as well as player choices. for eg a PvE player would go for that regular buff buff DoT DoT spammable rotation while a PvP player would build differently. or a healer would definitely have a different rotation. So how do we then declare what a class identity can be?
CHANGES
Here's my take on all the class changes that i feel would benefit and solidify unique identities. Again, I'm open to other possibilities and also other suggestions as long as we understand the reasoning behind the changes. I'm going to start with a class that i feel personally, have the best class identity in terms of its damaging, healing and certainly tanking abilities:
Dragon Knight
"These skillful masters-at-arms use the ancient Akaviri martial arts tradition of battle-spirit, and wield fearsome magic that pounds, shatters and physically alters the world around them."
My take on this class would be to further enforce their attrition warfare, with regards to how the Stamina variant of the DK has always been about poison or corroding armor or reducing the effectiveness of their enemies. Even the Fire variant, their magicka counterparts, looks towards DoTs or Burning status as their main priorities in dealing damage. Because of the nature of Ardent Flame abilities to deal melee damage, the fact that a DK is able to take hits would complement this playstyle, a kind of melee magicka / stamina build. They would also enhance their ability to take hits and survive, as well as giving that said mitigation to others as a form of group support.
- Change their Searing Heat passive to : Increases the damage over time of your Fiery Breath, Searing Strike, and Dragonknight Standard abilities by 33% and they cannot be purged or cleansed.
- Allow Magma Shell to be casted on a low health ally or self, to further emphasis on the nature of giving mitigation to others.
- Change Fossilize to encase yourself or an ally with low health, reducing their damage taken by 5% for 5s.
- Change Mountain Blessing passive to include minor sorcery as well. (note that i feel instead of casting an earthen ability, it should be when an ally is affected by an earthen ability.)
Templar
"These traveling knights call upon the power of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies while restoring health, magicka and stamina to their allies."
This is another class that doesn't really need much of a change since it already has a good niche within the player base community. However, it still lacks a proper identity or playstyle that can complement its niche. My idea for the Templar would be to have a passive that will increase damage done each time they deal damage with any of their direct damage. This passive also ties in with the way they heal or tank, with increasing heals each time they successfully heal an ally and take less damage each time they take direct damage.
- change their Balanced Warrior passive to : after dealing a direct damage Templar ability, you gain 3% more damage done. After taking a direct damage attack, you gain 3% more Armor. This effect stacks up to 5 times and lasts for 3s.
- change their Mending passive to : after successfully healing a target with a Restoring Light ability, you heal 10% more on your next healing ability. This effect has a CD of 2s.
- change Living Dark to : Envelop an ally in a lightless sphere for 4s, healing them for X amt, each time they take direct damage. ( i was also thinking of changing Purifying Light instead of Living Dark, basically casting it to an ally or self and it heals for 50% of the damage taken during the duration of the skill.)
Warden
"Wardens are defenders of the Green, master storytellers whose nature tales become magical reality. They wield frost spells against enemies and summon animals to aid them."
Wardens imo suffer the most in terms of identity, simply because they have a hodgepodge of skill line themes. They need more help in terms of tying together totally different themes within their kit. Wardens are definitely about symbiosis or something like when being able to do better damage with animal companions when you are in effect of a Green Balance ability. here's my take on it.
- Switch the passive for Flourish with Bond with Nature, and change Flourish passive to : When you are under the effects of a Green Balance ability, your Dive, Scorch and Swarm abilities deal 6% more damage.
- Change the passive for Emerald Moss to : Increase your Healing Done with Green Balance abilities by 8% whenever an enemy is affected by your Winter's Embrace abilities.
- Change the Piercing Cold passive to : Increase your Frost and Physical damage by 8%. (might not even change this in the first place if the balance is not right)
- The Feral and Eternal Guardian now deals Magic and Frost damage, with the Frost damage being the activated component. Wild Guardian deals Physical and Bleeding damage instead, with the Bleeding being the activated component.
- Deep Fissure now deals Frost damage instead of Magic damage. Subterranean Assault now deals Physical Damage instead of poison damage.
- Growing Swarm now deals Bleeding Damage.
Necromancer
"Masters of death, Necromancers can call upon corpses to serve as undead thralls and weave ghastly spells to both harm and heal."
Necromancer have the most recognizable identity of all; corpses and tethers. However, its so clunky and logically weird that it creates more of a nuisance than just being a good complement to the class. With that said though, ZoS shouldn't shirk from using corpses or tethers at all, they should further enhance that mechanic, with better implementation. Necromancers to me, should have high damage abilities that require its main form of supply, corpses. The type of damage that the necromancers deal is also all over the place with frost, flame and lightning to be part of their repertoire. There's many changes that i feel is needed for Necromancers to have a proper, viable class identity.
- Blastbones now has no casting time and you will be able to cast as many as you want. However the damage will be lesser by 35% to maintain balance. (or the AoE component is taken out and is now a single target ability).
- Boneyard now does not consume any corpses to increase its damage and lasts 12s. It now creates a corpse every 4s for its duration. ( or every 3s for 10s, keeping it to a regular rotation )
- Skeletal Mage and Spirit Mender now requires a corpse to cast it and does not leave a corpse after the spell ends and the Skeletal Mage now deals Flame damage.
- Bone Armor consumes corpses in a radius of 5m, with the number of corpses consume increasing the duration. 30s max.
- Bone Goliath now leaves 2 corpses when the duration ends.
- Venom Skull now deals Disease damage instead of poison damage to have continuity with the other sources of damage.
- Shocking Siphon now deals Magic damage, instead of Lightning ( or Frost damage, making it the same damage as Glacial Colossus. )
- Death Scythe now deals Frost damage.
Nightblade
"adventurers and opportunists with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on stealth, blades and speed, they thrive on conflict and misfortune trusting to their luck and cunning to survive."
Now this is a class that definitely needed surgery and a whole lot of work. Not only has ZoS changed its prior abilities to the point of no return, there is a sense of nightblades being relegated to solo pve characters and simply gankers for pvp (its even written in the class description smh ) I wont lie though, NB has always been my main go to character whenever i travel to a new DLC or partake in Trials or BGs but it has fallen so far down the pecking order that you simply be hard pressed to look at the NB's kit and say that "yes, thats the Assassin class". I am not trying to bring about a NB-pocalypse where you find NBs everywhere but at the very least make it identifiable as a class that relies on misfortune and cunning. What i came up with is a "High Risk, High Reward" approach to playing the NB that ties in well with all aspects of the group role, be it tanking, healing or damage. If a Nb is a poker player, they are the ones that always go all-in.
- Change their Dark Veil passive to : When you are below 50% health, you gain X amt weapon and spell damage. ( or penetration since the Necromancers are the ones with penetration passive as well. However, i do understand that Titanborn Strength, which is the new set in Harrowstorm will actually be OP in this scenario with its penetration bonuses. )
- Malevolent Offering will become the highest amount of healing done on a single target. However, it will cost more health to cast it.
- Soul Siphon will cast tethers onto nearby allies, much like soul tether, and heal them while draining you of health.
- Blur and Aspect of Terror switch places. I fail to see how being in the shadows is terrifying instead of an advancing Assassin.
- Change the Shadow Barrier passive to instead increasing the duration with the number of slotted shadow abilities, rather than heavy armor.
- Increase the effectiveness of Funnel Health and Crippling Grasp. Increase the damage for Debilitate and Swallow Soul.
- Killer's Blade deals 550% increased execute damage but now costs health. Impale deals a higher base damage.
- Take the Reave mechanic from Incapacitating Strike and put it in Surprise Attack. Incap now deals minor Fracture instead.
Sorcerer
"Sorceres can use Conjuration and Destruction spells to hurl lightning bolts and create shock fields, wield dark magic to snare and stun, and summon Daedric combat followers from Oblivion to assist them."
Sorcerers are a weird bunch. They have pets, which wardens and necromancers should have. They also have the only all lightning theme skill line among the classes. They are another class that is alike the wardens in terms of differentiating skill lines. However, what i came up for them for class identity is the Daedric Charges. The skill Bound Armaments is the best example of this. However, i feel that ZoS should pursue and explore this further.
- Change Amplitude to : Each time you deal a direct damage Sorcerer ability onto an enemy, you gain a Static Charge. After having 3 charges, you gain a bonus 10% damage increase against enemies with high health for 3s. ( this works with your daedric pet attacks. )
- Daedric pets deal 1 critical damage after 3 basic attacks.
Endnote
I have done all this changes with the view of changes to the CP system as well, which i will definitely include once ive done the writeup for it. Perhaps its a waste of time, perhaps it wont even see the light of day, but im hoping that some of the changes might make to the changes that ZoS had planned in the near future. Pls do critique and challenge my perspective on this, i much rather like to know whats in the other players' mind then just what is on the forums.
I am definitely just a regular player, having dip my toes in almost all aspects of ESO, from Trials to Cyro to dungeons and overland. Having played alot of other MMOs made me realise how impressive this game really is and how much potential it has to be one of the best in the business. Im sure there are many other things that i have not touched regarding this topic so come on in, lets discuss!
-RavenSworn-
edited : This is the quick write up for the CP revamp https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512048/champion-point-revamp#latest
Edited for Warden Abilities.