**Edit, I just got around to checking the replies on this and holy crap! This thread should be used as a case study for cherry-picking and selective memory. I can't believe, I refuse to believe that saying "a tank should have to have a taunt or a healer should have to have the ability to heal others on their bar before being able to queue for those roles" is a controversial statement. I refuse to believe it, period. I feel like I am being trolled after reading some of these replies. Let me clear a few things up for those you who are lets say, slightly challenged in the area of reading comprehension.
I am only talking about Vet LFG Dungeons. Normal LFG is beyond easy even for brand new players.
What I mean by "fake tank or fake healer" is a dps that queues for the tank or healer role and doesn't have any intention or ability to tank or heal for the group, just so they can have a fast queue time. I can work with/around a bad tank, healer or dps.
"Basic criteria", Zenimax would have to decide on that, at a bare minimum a taunt for tanks and the ability to heal other for healers before being able to queue for those roles. I am not suggesting they get to decide how you play/build your character.
When I say "lock the gear/skills/talents in place" until the dungeon is over, It's only what gear/skills/talents is needed for the role (decided by Zenimax) and it's so that they are not immediately swapped out when the queue pops. Does that mean they will use them? Nope, It just means they would be actively avoiding using them making kicking easier.
No, I am not just calling out fake tanks or fake healers... There are fake dps too, but the kick system works for those since dps are a dime a dozen, even good dps. The dps slot is filled almost instantly after making a kick, so there is no problem there.**
Every other MMO that has a queue system for dungeons/raids has a way to deal with this. It's to the point now where almost half of the lfg/pugs I do has a fake tank or healer in it, and a lot of the times it's just straight up 4 dps (no taunts and zero heals). I can accept they are bad tanks and healers, no problem. What I can't or won't accept is a dps queuing as a tank or healer just because they somehow think that their time is more valuable and don't want to wait in the queue that dps deal with right now. Vote to kick is not the answer because a fast kick and replacement almost never happens and people would rather just die a whole bunch instead of having to kick/replace/wait for the role to be filled properly. There is no risk or downside to the person queuing into the wrong role other than a slight chance of getting kicked, but even then they can just log onto another character, re-queue (in the wrong role) and end up right back in the group they were just kicked from further wasting everyone's time... (Why is the kicked timer not account wide, wtf?)
Now before a Captain Obvious stats the obvious...
(Yes, I know I can form my own groups and do.)
(Yes, I do tank and heal and not just dps in pugs.)
(Yes, I know I can leave the group at any time.)
(Yes, I know you can and I have successfully ran 3 and even 4 dps in vet dungeons.)
These are all band aid solutions to a broken system that only rewards the people who are breaking it.
So what can be done to fix the problem? I don't know, I'm not a developer and don't know what is and isn't technically possible with the HeroEngine. If possible, the queue system for LFG needs to have a criteria to look for before allowing someone to queue into a certain role.
Does the person have a taunt on their bar? Check
Does the person have sufficient health to tank the content that was queued for? Check
Does the person have the appropriate armor/armor buffs/shields/and cp talents? Check
If all checks pass, lock the gear/skills/talents in place required for the content and add them to the queue.
A system like this would allow extra rewards for filling and completing certain roles that are badly needed need in the queue like tank, thus speeding up everyone queue.
I know there are a lot of different play-styles and builds out there but there needs to be a bare minimum criteria in place to allow someone to queue for certain roles, otherwise little Timmy Turbo is just going to keep abusing the queue and wasting everyone's time. The only other options are to allow reporting and banning of people abusing the queue (first report a warning, second report 24 hour ban), but this would likely be abused it's self. The other option? Just leave it as it is and dumb down all lfg/pug content to allow for a random 4 dps to clear. What I can say for sure is that the LFG experience has progressively gotten worse over the past couple of years and it needs fixed right now.
I am only talking about Vet LFG Dungeons. Normal LFG is beyond easy even for brand new players.
What I mean by "fake tank or fake healer" is a dps that queues for the tank or healer role and doesn't have any intention or ability to tank or heal for the group, just so they can have a fast queue time. I can work with/around a bad tank, healer or dps.
"Basic criteria", Zenimax would have to decide on that, at a bare minimum a taunt for tanks and the ability to heal other for healers before being able to queue for those roles. I am not suggesting they get to decide how you play/build your character.
When I say "lock the gear/skills/talents in place" until the dungeon is over, It's only what gear/skills/talents is needed for the role (decided by Zenimax) and it's so that they are not immediately swapped out when the queue pops. Does that mean they will use them? Nope, It just means they would be actively avoiding using them making kicking easier.
No, I am not just calling out fake tanks or fake healers... There are fake dps too, but the kick system works for those since dps are a dime a dozen, even good dps. The dps slot is filled almost instantly after making a kick, so there is no problem there.**
Every other MMO that has a queue system for dungeons/raids has a way to deal with this. It's to the point now where almost half of the lfg/pugs I do has a fake tank or healer in it, and a lot of the times it's just straight up 4 dps (no taunts and zero heals). I can accept they are bad tanks and healers, no problem. What I can't or won't accept is a dps queuing as a tank or healer just because they somehow think that their time is more valuable and don't want to wait in the queue that dps deal with right now. Vote to kick is not the answer because a fast kick and replacement almost never happens and people would rather just die a whole bunch instead of having to kick/replace/wait for the role to be filled properly. There is no risk or downside to the person queuing into the wrong role other than a slight chance of getting kicked, but even then they can just log onto another character, re-queue (in the wrong role) and end up right back in the group they were just kicked from further wasting everyone's time... (Why is the kicked timer not account wide, wtf?)
Now before a Captain Obvious stats the obvious...
(Yes, I know I can form my own groups and do.)
(Yes, I do tank and heal and not just dps in pugs.)
(Yes, I know I can leave the group at any time.)
(Yes, I know you can and I have successfully ran 3 and even 4 dps in vet dungeons.)
These are all band aid solutions to a broken system that only rewards the people who are breaking it.
So what can be done to fix the problem? I don't know, I'm not a developer and don't know what is and isn't technically possible with the HeroEngine. If possible, the queue system for LFG needs to have a criteria to look for before allowing someone to queue into a certain role.
Does the person have a taunt on their bar? Check
Does the person have sufficient health to tank the content that was queued for? Check
Does the person have the appropriate armor/armor buffs/shields/and cp talents? Check
If all checks pass, lock the gear/skills/talents in place required for the content and add them to the queue.
A system like this would allow extra rewards for filling and completing certain roles that are badly needed need in the queue like tank, thus speeding up everyone queue.
I know there are a lot of different play-styles and builds out there but there needs to be a bare minimum criteria in place to allow someone to queue for certain roles, otherwise little Timmy Turbo is just going to keep abusing the queue and wasting everyone's time. The only other options are to allow reporting and banning of people abusing the queue (first report a warning, second report 24 hour ban), but this would likely be abused it's self. The other option? Just leave it as it is and dumb down all lfg/pug content to allow for a random 4 dps to clear. What I can say for sure is that the LFG experience has progressively gotten worse over the past couple of years and it needs fixed right now.
