Like are they there just to be there? Or could we get a special motif/costume/weapon or armor set/or something for getting the achievement bar all the way up?
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What are Achievement Points used for?
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Is increase penetration more important than 13% crit power?
I have an all divines gold TBS/Nightmothers gaze/robust agility build from TG patch for my stamplar, once T1 hit the resource sustain went to ***, somewhere along the lines it got a little bit better but it's still ***.
I heard people talking about penetration being more important now, iirc I have 2k penetration in cp, then trait on 2 dagger that increase penetration. My Mundus stones are theif and shadow, I can go for the one with the penetration mundus, i don't think it'll make much of a difference because having rearming trap active (10% crit power increase) compared to not having it active only adds like 1k more damage per biting jab.
I'm not sure how to go about changing something in this build, but I figure if penetration will do more damage than the 13% crit power increase it might be worth changing the 2nd mundus. I been thinking maybe I can change my agility jewelery out and try to get set crafted. Not sure what to change![:\]( ":\")
I heard people talking about penetration being more important now, iirc I have 2k penetration in cp, then trait on 2 dagger that increase penetration. My Mundus stones are theif and shadow, I can go for the one with the penetration mundus, i don't think it'll make much of a difference because having rearming trap active (10% crit power increase) compared to not having it active only adds like 1k more damage per biting jab.
I'm not sure how to go about changing something in this build, but I figure if penetration will do more damage than the 13% crit power increase it might be worth changing the 2nd mundus. I been thinking maybe I can change my agility jewelery out and try to get set crafted. Not sure what to change
![:\](http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
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Do you take off your shoes in your player house?
Do you take off your shoes in your player house? The floors are always immaculate, as if freshly vacuumed and mopped. Everything always looks so freshly cleaned. And there's never any germs on the floor tracked in with boots exposed to blood, Daedric bits, and other HAZMAT, as evidenced by no one ever getting sick. ![:D]( ":D")
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Sloads is not OP
Yeah that's right it's not OP. As a matter of fact I encourage you to use it since it will increase my survivability as a medium armor wearer. Here's the truth of the matter, Sloads is weak against non-cloak medium armored builds because we're used to undodgeable proc sets that rip through our health. Want to really destroy a medium armor build? Use Caluurion or Zaan. What Sloads is strong against are cloaking Nightblades, and play styles that rely on damage shields. Thinking about using Caluurion, Sloads' and Zaan/Skoria? Go right ahead. If you're going against a competent player like me you'll die first because you're not spec'd for resource management or survivability.
Damage shields is an untouched defense mechanic when it comes to abilities, and mist form is a better escape than both cloak and streak in most cases. Both of these defense mechanics are the most affected by Sload's and I say it's about time.
ZOS I would actually like to see more oblivion damage in PvE because if you think shields are strong in PvP they are way stronger in PvE.
So if you want to use a proc set; may I suggest thinking about what kind of opponent gives you a hard time, and spec accordingly.
If you struggle against medium armored builds then go with Skoria, Zaan or Caluurion.
If you struggle against cloaking Nightblades or magSorcs then go with Sloads.
If you struggle against magplars then go with Duroks, and use minor defile poisons.
Cheers, and may the proc be with you.
As a disclaimer, if it were up to me I'd make it so no damaging proc sets affected players, and I would make snake blood (alchemy passive) reduce the potency of poisons applied on you in order to make this game as competitive and skill based as possible, but I'm not in change of balance. So we need to either adapt to the proc meta or continue raging. Your choice.
Damage shields is an untouched defense mechanic when it comes to abilities, and mist form is a better escape than both cloak and streak in most cases. Both of these defense mechanics are the most affected by Sload's and I say it's about time.
ZOS I would actually like to see more oblivion damage in PvE because if you think shields are strong in PvP they are way stronger in PvE.
So if you want to use a proc set; may I suggest thinking about what kind of opponent gives you a hard time, and spec accordingly.
If you struggle against medium armored builds then go with Skoria, Zaan or Caluurion.
If you struggle against cloaking Nightblades or magSorcs then go with Sloads.
If you struggle against magplars then go with Duroks, and use minor defile poisons.
Cheers, and may the proc be with you.
As a disclaimer, if it were up to me I'd make it so no damaging proc sets affected players, and I would make snake blood (alchemy passive) reduce the potency of poisons applied on you in order to make this game as competitive and skill based as possible, but I'm not in change of balance. So we need to either adapt to the proc meta or continue raging. Your choice.
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Screwed Over
I am disgusted with Zenimax and Bethesda now. I pre-purchased the Summerset DLC. I waited for months for it to be released. When they released it, they also released the Digital Edition Upgrade. But because I pre-purchased Summerset, I can not purchase the Digital Edition Upgrade so I am getting screwed over. Steam says I already purchased the Digital Edition. But Support says I did not.
If I did not, as Support said, then why can I not purchase the Digital Edition in Steam?
If I did purchase it, as Steam says I have, then where are my items?
It disgusts me that I have made purchases where I PAID for 1 DLC (morrowind) multiple times in different packages, but Zenimax & Bethesda only gave me 1 copy. Well Zenimax & Bethesda... if this is how you treat those who support your game, are going to lose a pay to play customer. I am going to remove my subscription and I am done purchasing any more DLC for this game, or any games from Zenimax or Bethesda.
If I did not, as Support said, then why can I not purchase the Digital Edition in Steam?
If I did purchase it, as Steam says I have, then where are my items?
It disgusts me that I have made purchases where I PAID for 1 DLC (morrowind) multiple times in different packages, but Zenimax & Bethesda only gave me 1 copy. Well Zenimax & Bethesda... if this is how you treat those who support your game, are going to lose a pay to play customer. I am going to remove my subscription and I am done purchasing any more DLC for this game, or any games from Zenimax or Bethesda.
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MISSING PRE-PURCHASE REWARDS
I Bought the Summerset Digital Collectors Edition Upgrade, but i didn't receive the Nightmare Senche mount and the Bedlam Costume pack. Please resolve!
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Naming Jewelry
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Can you allow us to name the pieces we craft?
Can you allow us to name the pieces we craft?
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ZOS integrated Red Shell, to spy on players
https://redshell.io/home
i just left this here
i have a knowledge than ZOS added this spy utility into eso with latest patches
enjoy new level of targeting ADs on main screen in a future
i just left this here
i have a knowledge than ZOS added this spy utility into eso with latest patches
enjoy new level of targeting ADs on main screen in a future
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Players Exploiting VAS HM on Xbox1 NA, will ZOS ban Players like before?
There has been recent activity on VAS Exploiters Skin Sellers and my question is this. How was this allowed to happened and did ZOS stop sweeping the Game data after the first group of bans? If so why and how long has it truly been happening? Please get to the bottom of this
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Fang Lair 2nd Boss (Bone Menagerie, Featuring Exploding Doggies)
Has anyone found a graceful or noob-friendly way of doing this one? I'm getting pretty fed up with full groups of CP720s who consistently fail here, and I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing.
From my perspective, I'm a tank. I grab the bear and stack him on Guar. I usually attract the cat's attention for a while, but he eventually leaps away at the farthest (it seems) party member. The problem is dogs. Aside from a few skilled DPS players who are able to move and DPS at the same time, the rest just can't do it. They run around until the accumulate a dozen dogs, trip over one and die.
I can pretty consistently get doggies to blow up without getting myself killed. But when I move, bear moves, and DPS drops to zero (noob DPS can't follow). There's also the risk of a screw-up where bear attack and doggies combine.
One thing I noticed - the three mini-bosses seem to be able to damage the doggies (and perhaps vice versa)? That is, getting doggies near bear when he's swinging seems to pop the doggies very easily. Some of the best success I had was just park my ass (and bear) near doggie spawn, and deal with them myself before they spread. But that was problematic because my group would for some stupefying reason walk the cat halfway across the arena, then he heaps on me since I'm farthest away, and then the dogs spawn and bear does his cleave.
Anyway, any pointers when dealing with PUGs wiping on Menagerie? Am I missing something obvious? I know I shouldn't PUG, but sometimes guildies aren't on, or not interested. Or just stop PUGging and save myself the headache?
From my perspective, I'm a tank. I grab the bear and stack him on Guar. I usually attract the cat's attention for a while, but he eventually leaps away at the farthest (it seems) party member. The problem is dogs. Aside from a few skilled DPS players who are able to move and DPS at the same time, the rest just can't do it. They run around until the accumulate a dozen dogs, trip over one and die.
I can pretty consistently get doggies to blow up without getting myself killed. But when I move, bear moves, and DPS drops to zero (noob DPS can't follow). There's also the risk of a screw-up where bear attack and doggies combine.
One thing I noticed - the three mini-bosses seem to be able to damage the doggies (and perhaps vice versa)? That is, getting doggies near bear when he's swinging seems to pop the doggies very easily. Some of the best success I had was just park my ass (and bear) near doggie spawn, and deal with them myself before they spread. But that was problematic because my group would for some stupefying reason walk the cat halfway across the arena, then he heaps on me since I'm farthest away, and then the dogs spawn and bear does his cleave.
Anyway, any pointers when dealing with PUGs wiping on Menagerie? Am I missing something obvious? I know I shouldn't PUG, but sometimes guildies aren't on, or not interested. Or just stop PUGging and save myself the headache?
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How do I change username on forums
Hi ,
This is a forum based question .
To be honest I am not happy with the forum name I have and cannot change it - I have looked at heaps of things but can't seem to do it
Also my current username has parts of my surname in it which I am not comfortable with so I really need to change the forum username
This is a forum based question .
To be honest I am not happy with the forum name I have and cannot change it - I have looked at heaps of things but can't seem to do it
Also my current username has parts of my surname in it which I am not comfortable with so I really need to change the forum username
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The Rangers Guild - Casual leveling/social guild
The Rangers Guild is looking to fill its ranks!
We are a Casual leveling/social guild geared towards new players needing a place to learn and lvl up. However all lvls/CP are welcome, we also welcome any class, faction and race.
Our Guild Hall is the Linchal Grand Manor in the Gold Coast (DLC not needed to visit) and comes complete with the following amenities
Every mundus stone
3k target dummy
Every attuned crafting station YES every crafted set at your fingertips (No more running around for master writs)
Banker / merchant / fence
Alchemy / enchanting / provision / dye stations
Transmute station
Our aim is to offer a casual stress free guild where you can socialize, level and learn.
Only rules are be kind, bigotry of any kind will result in immediate removal from our ranks. Most importantly have fun!
For an invite comment on here with your user name or message/mail me in game or on Twitter @Casual_Ranger
We are a Casual leveling/social guild geared towards new players needing a place to learn and lvl up. However all lvls/CP are welcome, we also welcome any class, faction and race.
Our Guild Hall is the Linchal Grand Manor in the Gold Coast (DLC not needed to visit) and comes complete with the following amenities
Every mundus stone
3k target dummy
Every attuned crafting station YES every crafted set at your fingertips (No more running around for master writs)
Banker / merchant / fence
Alchemy / enchanting / provision / dye stations
Transmute station
Our aim is to offer a casual stress free guild where you can socialize, level and learn.
Only rules are be kind, bigotry of any kind will result in immediate removal from our ranks. Most importantly have fun!
For an invite comment on here with your user name or message/mail me in game or on Twitter @Casual_Ranger
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Lich or desert rose?
So I am currently using my Mag dk destro/resto build and my sustain is actually fairly good
But with lich the big 1000 Mag Regen is really nice, but a 40 second CD can be quite long
Surely desert rose would be better having a 15% chance to proc 2400 magicka every 4 seconds when taking damage. Of course it's probably not going to be on cool down all the time but even if it was procing every 9-10 seconds, thats still more Mag return than lich.
Am I missing something?
Ps4 EU
CP 720
But with lich the big 1000 Mag Regen is really nice, but a 40 second CD can be quite long
Surely desert rose would be better having a 15% chance to proc 2400 magicka every 4 seconds when taking damage. Of course it's probably not going to be on cool down all the time but even if it was procing every 9-10 seconds, thats still more Mag return than lich.
Am I missing something?
Ps4 EU
CP 720
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Map improvements for console
How long has it been since someone voiced the desire for map improvements on console? PC has addons for lorebooks, skyshards, and a few other things. We're not asking for much here, just some little optional map markers for quality of life. Please?
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Dismounting on weapon swap
its only me or everyone?
i think its because of poisons
because their visual effect fired and im dismounting always
i think its because of poisons
because their visual effect fired and im dismounting always
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Most Convenient Place for Writs?
Obviously, Dhalmora would be perfect if it had writ boards, but sadly it doesn't.
Where's your favorite place to pick up writs, quickly craft them, and then port to Craglorn?
I think Mournhold is the most convenient (and I bought the Flaming Nix Deluxe Garret for that reason). You do have to go inside for provisioning, enchanting, and alchemy, but the writ boards, crafting stations, and wayshrine are all right next to each other.
Where's your favorite place to pick up writs, quickly craft them, and then port to Craglorn?
I think Mournhold is the most convenient (and I bought the Flaming Nix Deluxe Garret for that reason). You do have to go inside for provisioning, enchanting, and alchemy, but the writ boards, crafting stations, and wayshrine are all right next to each other.
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When was the last time you attempted Veteran Maelstrom Arena?
How long has it been since you tried Veteran Maelstrom Arena?
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Veya and Naryu closure bug?
So I finished the Veya story in Morrowind but afterwards her and Naryu are supposed to be at the docks so I can hear some last dialogue. But they're not there, its kinda frustrating, is this a bug? I did notice that the boat going to Summerset is there now, so does that mean the characters have been displaced, meaning you can't listen to the ending dialogue anymore?
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Sloads + Sheer Venom + Skoria - the best time I've had playing ESO
Dropping a 900/tic, 800/tic (sheervenom), 900/600/tic (poison) for a total of about ~3.2-3.5K DPS after hitting a defile snipe and then just walking away with a 3.5k skoria proc dropping a few seconds in is an outright onslaught. Allows for such a safer playstyle, focusing on block and LoS as opposed to landing attacks.
Run the stamina food + stam recovery for full glass cannon. A single snipe + poison arrow kills most. Get the attacks off then stealth away. I'm taking out 4/5 on siege before I'm noticed.
If you've seen me in BGs/no CP Cyro the last few days, this is what I was running. I know that this is largely due to the proc set and the 2H change, but God it feels fun. Nothing feels better right now than killing stamsorcs with the DoT while you tumble out of range of their aoes...this is the first time I've been top10 on the emp list, entirely solo![:)]( ":)")
.
Run the stamina food + stam recovery for full glass cannon. A single snipe + poison arrow kills most. Get the attacks off then stealth away. I'm taking out 4/5 on siege before I'm noticed.
If you've seen me in BGs/no CP Cyro the last few days, this is what I was running. I know that this is largely due to the proc set and the 2H change, but God it feels fun. Nothing feels better right now than killing stamsorcs with the DoT while you tumble out of range of their aoes...this is the first time I've been top10 on the emp list, entirely solo
.
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Let's talk about the MMR...
TL:DR
MMR doesn't segregate premades from solo queuers, it just inflates the MMRS of the people in the premade because they're in a premade. MMR is based on the average of the group. The longer you're in queue for, the greater the gap can be between opponents' MMRs for a given match. This sucks for high MMR solo queuers because they get matched up against premades who have usually been waiting so long that the MMR system has essentially subtracted their premade bonus to find them a match due to how long they've sat in queue. The MMR system keeps allowing lower and lower MMR solo queuers to fight them, but it's tiered.. so it'll start the match with three, and won't add a fourth solo queuer to fight the premades until more time passes to subtract even more from the MMR of the premades.
So Let's talk about the MMR...
I'm going to separate the points I'd like to make into either "Facts" or "Working Hypotheses" based on whether I'm certain about a given piece of information, or am just hypothesizing based on the data I've collected.
FACTS
Is the MMR actually a thing?
Yes. And it always has been. Anyone that's every tried to synchronize queues to get into specific matches can tell you that it wasn't simply a matter of "who queued first." But now it's different...
What is MMR?
MMR stands for Match Making Rating (or Ranking depending on who you ask). It's a way to rate opponents so that players of a similar skill level can get matched together for a better, more even match. Think of it kind of like the weight classes for UFC or Boxing... it wouldn't be very fair to match a 140lbs guy against a 220lbs guy, so make sure the fights are fair, the fight organizers tend to make sure boxers fight people with a similar weight (I.E. the same "weight class".) But every once in a while, a fighter will fight someone in a weight class different than their own...
So if the MMR already existed, what did they change with Summerset?
To quote the patch notes: "Battleground match making now adds an additional multiplier to the value of players who are grouped. This value scales differently between 2, 3, and 4 player groups.... Pre-formed groups will generally be pitted against pre-formed groups, and solo players will generally be pitted against other solo players."
But wait... Are they or aren't they separating the premades from the solo queues?
Technically, NO, they are not separating the premades from the solo queues. What they ARE doing is increasing the MMR of the premades solely because they're premades. The more people in the "premade" group, the higher the increase to MMR for matchmaking purposes. So to use the boxing "weight class" metaphor... if you weigh 170 normally, but you queue as a duo, the system might consider you as actually weighing 180. If you queue as a trio, it might consider you as someone who weights 190, and if you queue as a four man, it might consider you as someone who weighs 200. In other words, it adds +10 each for a duo, +20 each for a trio, and +30 each for a four man
Tested Hypotheses:
So if you're in a four man group with four different individual MMRs, which MMR is used for the group?
The MMR for the group is the average of the individual characters, after adjusting them for the size of the premade. To explain using the boxing "weight class" metaphor again, if you have a 150 lbs, a 160 lbs, a 170 lbs, and a 190 lbs fighter queuing together, we'd add 30 lbs to each since they're queueing as a premade four man... that gives us 180, 190, 200, and 210. Then we would take the average of that, which is 195. That 195 is the MMR.. or the "weight class" that the premade would have to fight in. I am 99.999% sure that it's the average of the group, and I am 99.999% sure that it's character based rather than account based.
What is MMR based off of?
This is the thing we're the least certain of at this moment. I strongly suspect that it's based off of an aggregate of your medal scores.... in essence, the sum of all your leaderboard scores. I believe this because players with both a high win rate and a low win rate seem to have high MMRs if they've played a lot of games...Similarly, players with high K/D ratios but also players with low k/d ratios tend to have high MMRs if they've played a lot of games... but my MAIN reason for thinking this is the case is because we already know that this is the system ZOS uses for the "Leaderboards" so we already know that they're tracking it.. and it would make sense for the "leaderboard" metrics (cumulative medal score in all games) to also determine MMR.... the difference between the "Leaderboards" and the MMR system is that the Leaderboards reset each week but the MMR doesn't... we know that players who used to play a ton of games but haven't played one in a month or two will still have really high MMRs. This theory also means that your MMR can't go down.... since you can never "lose" leaderboard points by performing poorly... so if someone does have their MMR go down, this theory will be disproven.
So what happens if there's nobody at your MMR level to fight?
Here's where things get interesting. Let's use the example above of a four man with an MMR of 195... they queue up, but there is no other premade out there with an MMR that high.. so they wait. It appears that the battleground group finder will be more flexible with your MMR the longer you're in queue. For instance, if this premade with MMR of 195 queues up immediately, the system will only look for groups or players with an MMR of between 190-200. Then, after five minutes, if it can't find anyone in that "weight class" it widens the range by looking for matches with an MMR of between 180 and 210. Then after another five minutes, it widens it again, looking for opponents with an MMR of between 170 and 220. Then another five minutes, it widens again for opponents between 160 and 230, etc.... Do I know how often it widens the range? no, but i do strongly suspect it's on either 5 minute or 10 minute intervals.
So if I solo queue, how come I keep fighting premades?
Sounds like you've got a high MMR! The longer you spend queued, the more likely you are to fight "outside" of your weight class (MMR level).
How come when three premades all queue up at the same time, they have to wait 20 minutes to fight each other, even if all have been waiting for twenty minutes?
This is something that drives me insane but it is a distinct phenomenon of the new matchmaking system that didn't exist before. Let's say that two of the premades are full of people playing their BG mains... but one premade has a few alts in it, or maybe some veteran PvPers that just didn't do BGs until now. While all three premades are going to get the "premade bonus" to MMR, the MMR is character based... so the group finder would consider it an uneven match due to the low MMR of the team that's playing alts and new characters. Let's say that the average MMR of team A is 200, team B is 210, and team C is 160. Then let's add the premade bonus of 30 onto that and we get an MMR of 230 for A, 240 for B, and 190 for C... A and B will get matched together and considered "acceptable" after approx five minutes in the queue... but they'll have to stay queued for a while before the group finder will consider team C as eligible to fight in their weight class... so they wait...
How do high MMR solo queuers fit into all this?
Let's use the example in the previous question but add a twist... So:
But then let's say that there are a few solo queuers with a really high MMR. Let's say that
So what happens? Team A and B get "matched up" almost immediately because their MMR is so similar... but then there's nobody else in that weight class for them to fight. After 5 minutes, they're eligible to fight teams with an MMR of 220. After 10 minutes they're eligible to fight teams with an MMR of 210, after 15 minutes they're eligible to fight teams with an MMR of 200, and after twenty minutes they're eli...
..hey wait a second?! Queue pop after just 15 minutes! Teams A and B just entered into a match against... a pug group comprised of solo queuers 1, 2, and 3?!? How is this possible? It's because the BG system only needs 3 players on a team for the match to start.
So solo queuer 4 with an MMR of 180 gets added in immediately, right? NOPE! The BG queue finder keeps doing what it's doing. Where were we? Oh yes..
After twenty minutes (or five minutes into the match), the match is eligible to have MMRs of 190 join. Team C was a premade with an MMR of 190... but there are four of them and we can't fit four players into just one slot... So team C is out of luck, and the match maker continues lowering the MMR requirements for eligible players. After another five minutes (ten minutes into the match), MMRs of 180 become eligible, and solo queuer 4 (who has an MMR of 180) gets added onto the 3 man team consisting of solo queuers 1, 2, and 3... who, by the way, have been trying to fight as a pug 3 man against two full premades for the last ten minutes. Super fun for them.
And what happens to Team C, that never got into that match? Well they wait another 5 minutes or so and then fight two full groups of pug Solo queuers with MMR averages of around 130. Because their minimum MMR threshold for suitable opponents has been going down this whole time too, and they started off at 190...
Well, that kind of makes sense.. but why is it a problem?
It's a problem because if you're a high MMR solo queuer, you're almost always going to be the pug in a fight against premades. Solo queueing with a high MMR is, based on the current population trends, almost a guaranteed way to get stuck against premades. Why? Because the lower MMR solo queuers are matching up against each other so fast that their BG queue finder doesn't need to look for players in a higher weight class. They are getting into matches so quickly that the "allowed MMR range" of that match never gets high enough to grab the high MMR solo queuer. But meanwhile, on the other side of the spectrum, the high MMR premades have been waiting for 20 minutes. After a 20 minute wait, the "bonus" to their MMR that they get for being a premade is essentially nullified by the BG queue finder's willingness to allow them to fight in different, lower weight classes. So the high MMR solo queuer, being the closest thing to the time-lowered MMR of the premades who have been waiting, gets gobbled up to fight the premade before that solo queuer can wait long enough to allow their own MMR to get low enough to fight in the medium/low MMR solo queue matches.
And this is really frustrating because it is making BGs miserable for every solo queuer who has played a ton of BGs... In other words, it takes the people who love the BGs the most and makes them wait or gives them the worst matches.
Is there a silver lining?
Yes. High MMR premades tend to fight against High MMR premades when they are in queues together. This is a good thing if there are three High MMR premades all queueing around the same time. And if there are going to be solo players fighting the high MMR premades, it makes sense to take the "best" (let's not discuss the correlation or lack thereof between being High MMR and being good) solo players and put them in the match. It just really sucks to be a solo player who is always getting put in those matches...
@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
(Kudos to anyone who loves BGs enough to read this whole thing... it turned out a lot longer than I planned lol)
MMR doesn't segregate premades from solo queuers, it just inflates the MMRS of the people in the premade because they're in a premade. MMR is based on the average of the group. The longer you're in queue for, the greater the gap can be between opponents' MMRs for a given match. This sucks for high MMR solo queuers because they get matched up against premades who have usually been waiting so long that the MMR system has essentially subtracted their premade bonus to find them a match due to how long they've sat in queue. The MMR system keeps allowing lower and lower MMR solo queuers to fight them, but it's tiered.. so it'll start the match with three, and won't add a fourth solo queuer to fight the premades until more time passes to subtract even more from the MMR of the premades.
So Let's talk about the MMR...
I'm going to separate the points I'd like to make into either "Facts" or "Working Hypotheses" based on whether I'm certain about a given piece of information, or am just hypothesizing based on the data I've collected.
FACTS
Is the MMR actually a thing?
Yes. And it always has been. Anyone that's every tried to synchronize queues to get into specific matches can tell you that it wasn't simply a matter of "who queued first." But now it's different...
What is MMR?
MMR stands for Match Making Rating (or Ranking depending on who you ask). It's a way to rate opponents so that players of a similar skill level can get matched together for a better, more even match. Think of it kind of like the weight classes for UFC or Boxing... it wouldn't be very fair to match a 140lbs guy against a 220lbs guy, so make sure the fights are fair, the fight organizers tend to make sure boxers fight people with a similar weight (I.E. the same "weight class".) But every once in a while, a fighter will fight someone in a weight class different than their own...
So if the MMR already existed, what did they change with Summerset?
To quote the patch notes: "Battleground match making now adds an additional multiplier to the value of players who are grouped. This value scales differently between 2, 3, and 4 player groups.... Pre-formed groups will generally be pitted against pre-formed groups, and solo players will generally be pitted against other solo players."
But wait... Are they or aren't they separating the premades from the solo queues?
Technically, NO, they are not separating the premades from the solo queues. What they ARE doing is increasing the MMR of the premades solely because they're premades. The more people in the "premade" group, the higher the increase to MMR for matchmaking purposes. So to use the boxing "weight class" metaphor... if you weigh 170 normally, but you queue as a duo, the system might consider you as actually weighing 180. If you queue as a trio, it might consider you as someone who weights 190, and if you queue as a four man, it might consider you as someone who weighs 200. In other words, it adds +10 each for a duo, +20 each for a trio, and +30 each for a four man
Tested Hypotheses:
So if you're in a four man group with four different individual MMRs, which MMR is used for the group?
The MMR for the group is the average of the individual characters, after adjusting them for the size of the premade. To explain using the boxing "weight class" metaphor again, if you have a 150 lbs, a 160 lbs, a 170 lbs, and a 190 lbs fighter queuing together, we'd add 30 lbs to each since they're queueing as a premade four man... that gives us 180, 190, 200, and 210. Then we would take the average of that, which is 195. That 195 is the MMR.. or the "weight class" that the premade would have to fight in. I am 99.999% sure that it's the average of the group, and I am 99.999% sure that it's character based rather than account based.
What is MMR based off of?
This is the thing we're the least certain of at this moment. I strongly suspect that it's based off of an aggregate of your medal scores.... in essence, the sum of all your leaderboard scores. I believe this because players with both a high win rate and a low win rate seem to have high MMRs if they've played a lot of games...Similarly, players with high K/D ratios but also players with low k/d ratios tend to have high MMRs if they've played a lot of games... but my MAIN reason for thinking this is the case is because we already know that this is the system ZOS uses for the "Leaderboards" so we already know that they're tracking it.. and it would make sense for the "leaderboard" metrics (cumulative medal score in all games) to also determine MMR.... the difference between the "Leaderboards" and the MMR system is that the Leaderboards reset each week but the MMR doesn't... we know that players who used to play a ton of games but haven't played one in a month or two will still have really high MMRs. This theory also means that your MMR can't go down.... since you can never "lose" leaderboard points by performing poorly... so if someone does have their MMR go down, this theory will be disproven.
So what happens if there's nobody at your MMR level to fight?
Here's where things get interesting. Let's use the example above of a four man with an MMR of 195... they queue up, but there is no other premade out there with an MMR that high.. so they wait. It appears that the battleground group finder will be more flexible with your MMR the longer you're in queue. For instance, if this premade with MMR of 195 queues up immediately, the system will only look for groups or players with an MMR of between 190-200. Then, after five minutes, if it can't find anyone in that "weight class" it widens the range by looking for matches with an MMR of between 180 and 210. Then after another five minutes, it widens it again, looking for opponents with an MMR of between 170 and 220. Then another five minutes, it widens again for opponents between 160 and 230, etc.... Do I know how often it widens the range? no, but i do strongly suspect it's on either 5 minute or 10 minute intervals.
So if I solo queue, how come I keep fighting premades?
Sounds like you've got a high MMR! The longer you spend queued, the more likely you are to fight "outside" of your weight class (MMR level).
How come when three premades all queue up at the same time, they have to wait 20 minutes to fight each other, even if all have been waiting for twenty minutes?
This is something that drives me insane but it is a distinct phenomenon of the new matchmaking system that didn't exist before. Let's say that two of the premades are full of people playing their BG mains... but one premade has a few alts in it, or maybe some veteran PvPers that just didn't do BGs until now. While all three premades are going to get the "premade bonus" to MMR, the MMR is character based... so the group finder would consider it an uneven match due to the low MMR of the team that's playing alts and new characters. Let's say that the average MMR of team A is 200, team B is 210, and team C is 160. Then let's add the premade bonus of 30 onto that and we get an MMR of 230 for A, 240 for B, and 190 for C... A and B will get matched together and considered "acceptable" after approx five minutes in the queue... but they'll have to stay queued for a while before the group finder will consider team C as eligible to fight in their weight class... so they wait...
How do high MMR solo queuers fit into all this?
Let's use the example in the previous question but add a twist... So:
- Team A has an MMR of 200(base)+30(premade)=230,
- Team B has an MMR of 210(base)+30(premade)=240
- Team C has an MMR of 160(base)+30(premade)=190
But then let's say that there are a few solo queuers with a really high MMR. Let's say that
- Solo queuer 1 has an MMR of 210(base)+0(solo)=210
- Solo queuer 2 has an MMR of 210(base)+0(solo)=200
- Solo queuer 3 has an MMR of 200(base)+0(solo)=200
- Solo queuer 4 has an MMR of 180(base)+0(solo)=180
So what happens? Team A and B get "matched up" almost immediately because their MMR is so similar... but then there's nobody else in that weight class for them to fight. After 5 minutes, they're eligible to fight teams with an MMR of 220. After 10 minutes they're eligible to fight teams with an MMR of 210, after 15 minutes they're eligible to fight teams with an MMR of 200, and after twenty minutes they're eli...
..hey wait a second?! Queue pop after just 15 minutes! Teams A and B just entered into a match against... a pug group comprised of solo queuers 1, 2, and 3?!? How is this possible? It's because the BG system only needs 3 players on a team for the match to start.
So solo queuer 4 with an MMR of 180 gets added in immediately, right? NOPE! The BG queue finder keeps doing what it's doing. Where were we? Oh yes..
After twenty minutes (or five minutes into the match), the match is eligible to have MMRs of 190 join. Team C was a premade with an MMR of 190... but there are four of them and we can't fit four players into just one slot... So team C is out of luck, and the match maker continues lowering the MMR requirements for eligible players. After another five minutes (ten minutes into the match), MMRs of 180 become eligible, and solo queuer 4 (who has an MMR of 180) gets added onto the 3 man team consisting of solo queuers 1, 2, and 3... who, by the way, have been trying to fight as a pug 3 man against two full premades for the last ten minutes. Super fun for them.
And what happens to Team C, that never got into that match? Well they wait another 5 minutes or so and then fight two full groups of pug Solo queuers with MMR averages of around 130. Because their minimum MMR threshold for suitable opponents has been going down this whole time too, and they started off at 190...
Well, that kind of makes sense.. but why is it a problem?
It's a problem because if you're a high MMR solo queuer, you're almost always going to be the pug in a fight against premades. Solo queueing with a high MMR is, based on the current population trends, almost a guaranteed way to get stuck against premades. Why? Because the lower MMR solo queuers are matching up against each other so fast that their BG queue finder doesn't need to look for players in a higher weight class. They are getting into matches so quickly that the "allowed MMR range" of that match never gets high enough to grab the high MMR solo queuer. But meanwhile, on the other side of the spectrum, the high MMR premades have been waiting for 20 minutes. After a 20 minute wait, the "bonus" to their MMR that they get for being a premade is essentially nullified by the BG queue finder's willingness to allow them to fight in different, lower weight classes. So the high MMR solo queuer, being the closest thing to the time-lowered MMR of the premades who have been waiting, gets gobbled up to fight the premade before that solo queuer can wait long enough to allow their own MMR to get low enough to fight in the medium/low MMR solo queue matches.
And this is really frustrating because it is making BGs miserable for every solo queuer who has played a ton of BGs... In other words, it takes the people who love the BGs the most and makes them wait or gives them the worst matches.
Is there a silver lining?
Yes. High MMR premades tend to fight against High MMR premades when they are in queues together. This is a good thing if there are three High MMR premades all queueing around the same time. And if there are going to be solo players fighting the high MMR premades, it makes sense to take the "best" (let's not discuss the correlation or lack thereof between being High MMR and being good) solo players and put them in the match. It just really sucks to be a solo player who is always getting put in those matches...
@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
(Kudos to anyone who loves BGs enough to read this whole thing... it turned out a lot longer than I planned lol)
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