TLDR
In short, thank you for your hard work on these updates, just one problem: stealth detection is does not provide any benefit to PVE gameplay and very limited benefit in pvp. Please change that one part back to stealth radius reduction because it is useful in both pvp and pve as you have pointed out in your own notes.
Wood Elf
Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.
Developer Comment:
The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.
Look at what I bolded.
Enemies can’t be bothered to sneak about.
Then look at the change you made.
Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m
So enemies can’t be bothered to sneak yet Bosmer can detect sneaking better. Your own explanation invalidates your own logic.
Rethink this please.
Edit: here is how bad this change is as tested on the PTS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455172/a-visual-of-khajiits-new-stealth-capability-stacking-is-quite-extreme/
The Lore
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bosmer
Their agility makes them well-suited as scouts and
thieves.
chameleon-like ability to hide in forested areas.
They often rely on their forest-coupling skills to make use of guerrilla tactics. The title of their most famous poem, the Meh Ayleidion, means "
The One Thousand Benefits of Hiding".[15]
The Bosmer are one of the few who worship the trickster Baan Dar, the trickster spirit of thieves and beggars
There are many other deities with significant Bosmer cults, such as Hircine.[59] They also worship the moon gods Jone and Jode.[59][61] Ancient stories of the supernatural, enigmatic Wilderking abound in Greenshade.[62] Like the Nords, the trickster spirit Herma-Mora appears in their legends (and they insist he is not to be confused with the Daedra Hermaeus Mora). And, of course, in a culture replete with trickster spirits, they do not forget the greatest trickster of all: Lorkhan.[59]
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Faith:_The_Wood_Elves
The Rite of Theft
The Rite of Theft is a cherished Bosmeri custom, though one which outsiders have trouble appreciating.[72] The Bosmer steal from each other, and upon return of the stolen item, they demand a boon commensurate to the item's worth.[73] In ancient times, the Bosmer Vanirion the Thief was renowned for demanding over two hundred payments after invoking the Rite.[71] In more modern times, the Bosmer of Greenshade are particularly
infamous for their thievery.[49]
TES Arena: They are well suited towards any class, although their nimbleness serves them best in any art involving
thievery.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Races#Wood_Elf
TES Daggerfall: "Wood Elves hail from the province of Valenwood. You are part of a small, fair-skinned people known to be extremely agile and quick. Wood Elves have a natural affinity for the bow and arrow, and all members of their race have some ability with that weapon. There are well-known Wood Elves in most every class, but the arts of
thievery are their particular forte
TES Battlespire: Hailing from the forests of Valenwood, the Wood Elves are the finest archers in all of Tamriel. These cousins of the High Elves and Dark Elves are nimble and quick as the wind. Because of their curious natures and natural agility, Wood Elves often become
thieves (No Khajiit in this game)
TES Morrowind: Bosmer
had +10 sneak in that game. Khajiit only had +5
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Bosmer
In Shadowkey, it’s Argonians who are noted for being Thieves, Khajiit for dodging and Bosmer for healing.
TES Oblivion:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Bosmer Once again,
+10 sneak for Bosmer, only +5 sneak for Khajiit.
TES Skyrim: Khajiit have +10 sneak and Bosmer have +5.
In this chart, in the Skills Row, click on the last yellow icon for Bosmer. It’s +10 sneak. For Khajiit it’s +5.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races
We are asking for sneak radius. The sneak radius we always had.
Bosmer have 3 trickster gods as well. Baan Dar, Lorkhan and the Woodland Man aka Herma-Mora
If you want to make us unique from Khajiit then keep the sneaking part the same (reduce stealth radius) but give us bonus to lockpicking instead of pickpocketing. Or if it’s going to be the last passive we earn, let it be reduce stealth radius and further stamina recovery. Or, my personal favorite, let us cannabalize eligible corpses like werewolves but we incur an immediate death penalty if done in the wrong company. or really anything else
as long as we keep our stealth radius reduction. Another idea is bonus to range damage of any kind (that will help a Bosmer casters too since you said you didn’t want to punish people for not choosing a magic race for a magic class. Something like that would be in keeping with the lore.
The Bottom Line
We aren’t sad because we can’t gank people. If anything, Khajiit with their higher crit and larger radius will be better gankers anyway.
Also, not one of us is asking for the extra damage, just the radius reduction. Also, if we cared about pvp we’d want to keep the passive like what is on offer because the offered passive stacks with Hasty Retreat. And stealth DETECTION is only useful in pvp, and is never used in pve. So sorry to burst that bubble, we aren’t gankers.
Also, it is fine that you can complete stealthy quests with a non-stealth race, the game would be unbalanced if it were impossible.
The bottom line is that a Bosmer is not as noticeable as a Nord when crouched. It’s not realistic. Bosmer have always had a higher sneak bonus than other races, as I pointed out above, it’s not hard to understand. Altmer have always been better with arcane skills. These are just facts of this universe.
Finally, stealth detection is useless in pve all the time. Full stop. If they gave Orcs a passive to hug other players instead of a useful lore friendly passive I would be here about that too.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_Gilliam
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_Lawrence_Schick
, namely (the ones I can remember at least, feel free to add):
